Interviewing Ruth Kollian.

As a person who’s spent 8 years trying to be a charedi, as someone who knows the women’s situation there first hand, news of a charedi women’s party came as a bolt of thunder from a clear sky. How could this happen? According to our Rabbis, the place of a woman is in the kitchen. Are they, as well as everyone else, subject to changes that are taking place in our society? Observing the deep sociological processes taking place in that society may lead us to a conclusion that charedim might wish to be integrated in the wider society, and enter the work force market. And that leaves me hoping that one day our society might heal whole. Ruth Collian is the brave lady who dared take the rabbis on and walk her own path. 

-tell me please, why is there a need for a separate charedi party for women? And why now? Which needs and wishes are not being answered?

- there are 2 reasons. Firstly, the conditions in which charedi women live, and consequently, the state of their health. During the hearing in the Knesset committee for the position of women in the Israeli society the following statement was made: the mortality due to breast cancer is twice as high in the charedi sector as amongst the secular women. Why is that? The words “breast cancer” are not deemed modest enough to merit discussion. It’s the “women’s illness”. Charedi women take the eighth place in life expectancy in the Israeli society, while their men take the second. Why is that? How can that be, they eat the same food and breathe the same air. The difference is in the fact that women are being exploited.  The existing educational system allows women to become kindergarten teachers, school teachers and nursery workers, and that’s about it. Those women do not know their rights. Often, they don’t even have their travel expenses paid. For an 8 hours working day a woman gets paid a miserable amount of 2700 shekels, and her family is destined to live in poverty. There are thousands of those women, and our task is to help them.

The second problem is the women who suffer abuse in their family, usually by the hand of their husbands. Usually, they will not dare ask for help until their lives are threatened in a very meaningful way. And even if they dare, they have nowhere to turn. To ask for help means to be disowned by the wide community. I say that the abused woman gets beaten thrice: once by the husband, once by the community, which refuses to help her or to as much as acknowledge that such things take place in our society, and lastly, by the state. There are 14 shelters in Israel, out of them only one is suitable for the needs of the charedi women. It is difficult to understand, but that’s how it is – such a woman would never agree to be housed with her children in a shelter that has a TV set. For her whole life she’s been taught that the TV is the source of all evil. For her, that spiritual danger is much more meaningful and real than the damage done to her and her children by the father. And even that one and only shelter is full to its utmost capacity. And so she is being abused by the state, as well.

There is also the problem of the Rabbinic courts, which were given incomprehensible amount of power over people’s lives. It is a government institution which only employs men. It’s not a normal situation. There are judges who do their job honestly and diligently. However, there are judges who simply torture the women, trying to expose them as mentally and emotionally incapable. “Even if you are normal”, they say with their whole attitude – “by the time you come out, you’ll never be normal again”. In one case I know of, a woman complained that her husband abuses her, beats her. Once he poured a cup of water on her head, in front of her children and her whole family. The judge asked her, was the water hot or cold? – Warm, she answered. – And was the day hot? See, he cares for you! – was the judge’s conclusion. Women encounter despicable treatment when they turn for help. The attitude is “you were raped, but you must’ve enjoyed it”. Litzman and other Knesset members would gladly allow a woman cleaner into their house, but would never allow a woman attorney (toenet rabbanit) into the court proceedings. This is exactly the problem that we would like to fix – we intend to train women to work with the rabbinic courts, who would have the right to return a case for an additional hearing in cases of injustice. It’s time to bring an end to this carnival of bullying and humiliation. 

Obviously, we intend to care for the whole society, and not just our specific sector. The changes we intend to bring about would help all Israelis who weren’t born by the “feeder.” For example, we would like to extend the maternity leave, and to give men equal rights when claiming it. See, what happens now is that a woman comes for a job interview, and what goes through the head of prospective employer is that she is likely to give birth soon, since she is still in her reproductive years, so a man gets hired instead. If men could claim maternity leave, this consideration would no longer be relevant for the employer. Also, consider single mothers. Married women can earn as much as they want, while the poor woman who got dumped by her husband, and her husband doesn’t pay her the child support money, is limited to 4200 shekels income. If she earns more than 1600, she loses the child support that the state pays her. Is that how the Jewish State should conduct things? While her husband continues to live a life of leisure, as if nothing happened, she is just barely surviving. We would like to give these women an option of studying for a profession, so that they could provide for themselves. To turn them into a member of the society who benefits the whole, instead of being a burden on that whole. The State is effectively telling the women – go work without paying tax, get an undeclared salary. Because she cannot survive on what they give and allow her to have. The State doesn’t care about the children growing up in dire poverty. There are thousands of such mothers. This is something we would not give in on.

Also, many parties discuss the zero tax on basic products. But the list of those products just shows how far they are from the people.  It’s essential to include not only bread and milk on that list, but electricity, gas and medicines. Those are the essential products! Obviously, this would only apply to people who really need it.

For the “Russians”, I have another idea. The doctor who treats my children moved to Israel when she was older than 40. She spent 7 years proving her license. I asked her about her pension, and she just laughed. Pension? I don’t have any, she said. Well, that is unacceptable. The Jewish Agency brings people in without a consideration of what might befall them here. I would like to insist on a budget pension for all such people, who hadn’t had the time to earn it. Aliya should never be a goal in itself; we have to think about how these people will survive here. When I look at that doctor, I think of my mother. I wouldn’t want to see her in that situation! The State has to take responsibility for the people who cannot provide for themselves.

-Why do you insist on being represented in the Knesset? See, the problems of the Russian speaking sector are not new, and yet our representatives in the Knesset hadn’t been able able to solve them for the last 20 years. Why do you think you’d be able to help the charedi women from there?

-The Russian-speaking deputies also cannot identify with the person on the street – just as their Israeli colleagues cannot. They don’t know what it’s like, to live in fear, to not know where your piece of bread will come from. They can never understand it... I’ve been through it, and I understand. See, now I’ve got my lawyer’s diploma, I could just sit and make a decent living for my family, just like everybody does. But I can’t forget the suffering I’ve seen. 

-That’s exactly what I’ve been wanting to ask you about. How come you’ve got such a prestigious profession – you are a lawyer. The Rabbis, as we know, do not approve of people studying in universities, be they men or women.

-I’ve begun my studies, when, I think, the Rabbis haven’t quite figured out yet that a college is the same thing as a university. Now they would’ve never allowed it. When Rav Ovadya was still alive, because of his daughter, some rabbis were more lenient. Now they’re not.

- Tell me, what do you feel coming your way from the community? Is it animosity? Support? How do they treat you? I know the charedi community from the inside, and I can tell you that you are an incredibly brave woman.

- Yes, once they called me from a charedi radio station. The interviewer tried to expose me as a fool, as a little child. “Tell me, are you bored? Why not go do something useful in your kitchen? Why the Knesset? Are you even charedi?” – that’s what he said to me. I don’t take animosity to heart. There is a God, and He knows what’s really in my heart. He knows my deeds and intentions, and I do not have to give account to anyone else. There are Rabbis who support my initiative, but I can never name them, because they would be publically shamed. I would rather not run for the Knesset, than expose those people and cause them any kind of discomfort.

- what are the consequences of this campaign for you? For your family? Does your husband support you?

-at first, I was terrified. People would say to me; “Your children will never find a shidduch, because of what you’ve done. It’s terrible, when your daughter turns 28, and everybody is throwing her looks because she’s not yet married. Aren’t you afraid?” – and then I thought – why would I want those people in my family, anyway? Maybe I would not want them, and not visa versa? I am waiting to hear this question again, because now I have an answer for them. For some guy to marry my daughter, and demand that she becomes a nursery teacher to be exploited, without any rights? Never! Don’t let them think they’re doing me a favour by accepting me!

-Tell me, charedi women, when standing there alone in front of neat rows of cards with party names, are they still under control of the Rabbis? Would they dare vote for you? Or do they think God will punish them?

- at the polling station a woman stands alone, just with herself and God. Yes, many of them will say, I know the system is corrupt, but I am afraid. I hope there will be enough of them who will dare. That’s exactly how it is – I’m not even sure my own sister will dare vote for me for the fear of the Rabbis. She is one of those exploited nursery teachers whom I hope to help...

- Would you say these elections are a turning point in Israel’s history? What will change after them?

- Unquestionably so. People are saying that the protest of the charedi women is the most justified protest in the history of the State. It’s an earth-shifting change. It’s a promise of knowledge and independence for the charedi women.

-It sure sounds like a dream! I honestly feel like pinching myself. You are such a free-thinking person. Would you like to see the girls studying in the Bet Yaakov system developing free thinking skills, as well? Would you like to see more women attorneys? What would you change in that system?

- My children are getting a decent education. They are studying English...

- and sciences, as well?

- No, I’m not sure they do. But I’m very pleased with their studies. I insist on them getting a professional education, so that, God forbid, they would never be a burden on society. We say, make your Shabbat a weekday, but do not rely on others. And this is the society that is dependent on others in its entirety? That’s a disgrace.

- how would you deal with the fanatics who spit at women, burn bins and puncture tyres of “Egged” buses?

- We can only deal with them by explanations. Secular people often don’t understand just how our people are ready to give up their lives for the most minute injunction of the Torah. They perceive the new drafting law as an attempt to make them violate commandments. We must make it clear that the army doesn’t demand anything of the sort. It’s natural for people to be afraid of new things.. so they’re afraid. They just don’t know. I always compare the charedi society to an egg. If an egg is broken from the outside, it dies, but if the shell is broken from within – a new life is born. So too with our society – the changes are already taking place, but they must come from within.

- well, I’d like to wish you much luck in the upcoming elections! Thank you for sharing your views with ReLevant!